The last bunch of UV-Killer Tests

UPDATED TESTS

The purpose of this report is to document additional tests I made on the UV-Killer product samples sent to me by Dan Gutting of Atsko, Inc. Let me repeat at the outset that I was on the record as highly skeptical of not only the claims of Atsko regarding this product. In fact the reason for this test grew out of a weblog entry I made on 9/22/2008 on Genesis 9:2-4 Ministries. Dan took umbrage with my assertions, and a conversation ensued. If you follow the link, and click on the comments, you can see what has transpired. Eventually Dan offered to send me a sample of UV-Killer to test. After the first set of tests,UV-Killer Test 081106 , Dan reviewed the results and decided to send me additional material, specifically three light sources:

• A compact fluorescent bulb

• An LED bulb

• A small key-fob LED flashlight that would be suitable for testing samples in a store or in the field.

All three seem to produce a heightened effect of UV fluorescence compared to the 75 Watt incandescent bulb I had used in the earlier tests. It definitely gave me reason to go back to the lab. Please refer back to the 11/6 tests for all the setup information. The compact fluorescent bulb made for the best illumination for photography. I therefore used that for the follow-on tests. I honestly expected to be eating crow by the time this was over.

Through all of this, this was just me in the basement with a light bulb and a camera. No deer were killed in the course of this test.

Here are the details: UV-Killer Tests 081211



My conclusions:

	After all this testing , do I believe the UV-Killer can darken the UV fluorescence of your clothing? Yes.
	Do I believe there are UV-Brighteners in detergent? Yes.
	Does UV-Killer do anything to them? I couldn't get the glow of washed clothes to read on my camera in the first place. Therefore, I was unable to test it. The one positive test was a glob of Ultra-Gain that had been left to dry on a patch of cloth for over a month. That is hardly a valid test on which to base an opinion.
	Do name-brand manufacturers produce camo that has UV-Brighteners. Yes.
	Does UV-Killer reduce their fluorescence? Yes.
	Does it amount to an appreciable amount? No. It does on copier paper, but I did not see a level of attenuation that I would consider substantial on the fabric. On camo fabric, that is already pretty dark. The attenuation is there but it only muddies the pattern. After the fabric if left to dry, I do not see appreciable darkening of UV fluorescence.
	After all this testing, and after 26 seasons of hunting do I think UV-Killer really does anything to enhance my chances of bagging a deer? I am wholly unconvinced it does. If a deer is scrutinizing me enough to see the difference, I am all ready busted. Either that or he's already on a one-way trip to my freezer.
	What would convince me? A double-blind test that shows conclusively that deer will run from a hunter wearing clothing that is not protected with the UV-Killer product versus a control. I would think a 20% difference would be reasonable to expect. I doubt you will see that study ever done.
	Do I have any suggestions: Yes, If you have a concern about this sort of thing, stick with dull camo patterns without a whole lot of contrast. Those bright white highlights are bright for a reason. Wash your clothes in sodium bicarbonate, and stay away from laundry detergents. What? You want brighter hunting clothes? Duh! A little dull and dingy goes a long way. Remember that almost my entire collection of camo clothes and camo fabric, collected since 1982 had a very small percentage of samples that would glow under the bulbs supplied by Atsko-- even a lot of the hunter orange stuff appeared dark under UV.

UV Killer Tests -- Elephant Repellent works as well

I am oft reminded of the story of the man with the can of Elephant Repellent. One day a neighbor sees the man scattering powder around the edge of his yard and asks what's up.

"It's elephant repellent." said the man.

"Why do you need elephant repellent?" asked the neighbor.

"Because I don't want to be trampled." replied the man.

"But this is Kansas, there are no elephants around here!" said the neighbor.

"See how good it works?" said the man. "Think what it would be like if I wasn't treating my lawn!"



With that in mind, I received my sample of UV-Killer from Dan Gutting at Atsko. You may remember that Dan and I started a conversation regarding UV-Killer back on 9/22/2008 on this very weblog. No? Here's the link:

UV Killers

Since then Dan and I have been going back and forth over that post. Finally Dan sent me a bottle of UV-Killer and instructions for doing a test. I did not have the UV bulb he said was necessary-- a 350nm bulb. This would be the same sort of bulb you see at night clubs. However, I did have an incandescent black light. So I ran some tests anyway.

Yep, if you paint UV-Killer on a sheet of copier paper and put it under my black light, you can see a difference. On camo? On a piece of Hunter Orange fabric? On anything except that piece of copier paper and the cotton swab I used to paint the UV-Killer on? Nope.

If you read through the comments after the original post you see this from Dan Gutting:

Dear Shaman,
Nothing is conclusive because you are using an incondescent bulb.If nothing glows at all you may have "selected" clothing over the years that you were successful with. I would suggest that the reason why you were successful with these pieces may be that they don't glow. If you have any interest in evaluating your need for U-V-Killer or the effectiveness of it you will need to get a 350BLB flourescent light.
Sincerely, Dan

Dan, it is pretty obvious to me that my testing of this stuff is going nowhere. No, I didn't cherry pick fabric from my collection that had a track record of success. These were just remnants that were on sale and went into a big bin waiting for a project. I dug down to the bottom and found things like Crumley's original Trebark. Out of all that camo fabric, and all my hunting clothes, I could not find anything that fluoresced except the hunter orange vests and hats. All the fabric I picked for the test had never seen the inside of a washing machine, had never been treated with anything. It came off the bolt at the store and got shelved in my basement. The stuff that I deliberately treated with detergent with UV brighteners stayed dull under the light.

Furthermore, the hunter orange fabric I used in the test was a swatch from the poncho that I made for my two kids so they would have legal orange on when they went out hunting this year. Both kids killed their deer wearing day-glo hunter orange ponchos made from that fabric. I'd call them darn lucky, especially wearing hunter orange ponchos made from some miraculous material that UV-Killer can't seem to touch.

Here are the details of all the tests.

UV Killer Tests 081106


Dan, if you want to send me the special bulb, I'll be more than happy to repeat the tests and publish the results. For now, I have satisfied myself that your myth is
busted. Let me refresh my offer from last month:

. . . you can send me a day-glow UV-radioactive clown suit, and a big day-glo UV painted sign that says "DANGER: HUNTER" and I'll wear the suit and sit in my treestand under the sign all during season as long as you agree to publish all my kill photos in full page ads wherever you are currently advertising. Frankly, I do not think the clown suit or the sign will make much difference to my success as long as I can treat them with a little baking soda to get the stink off.

I'm not the Myth Busters. In fact, I am a practicing shaman; we live for myths and rituals. This all looks like a hunter doing some arcane cleansing ritual to get rid of the unseen evil spirits to me. I dig that. I would not want to see UV Killer go away anymore than I would like to hunt under a sky devoid of Orion.

More on UV-Killers-- The plot continues

Here is a series of comments that amounts to a conversation between myself and Dan Gutting at Atsko, the makers of UV Killers. As you can see, Dan is a bit peeved at the less than glowing comments I made of his product:



Blogger Dan said...

Dear Shaman,
If you believe your readers would be interested in a two sided discussion of U-V-Killer and the science of deer vision, I will try to engage in a conversation.
In any case it would be only fair to direct them to Atsko.com where the dvd and book and hundreds of references in juried periodicals are all available at no cost.
Sincerely,
Dan Gutting, Atsko Inc.

Mon Sep 22, 03:48:00 PM 2008
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Blogger shaman said...

Dan:

I'd love to have that discussion. I've already been on Atsko.com I did what your demo video suggested and took a bunch of my camo and put it under a UV light. Zip. Nada.

Some of this stuff is 20 years old. Some is fairly recent. None of it fluoresced the way the camo your video suggested. What am I doing wrong?

I also tried a bunch of my other clothing, and only a small number of white and light blue shirts had the glow under my UV light.

Normally, I only use Sodium Bicarbonate to wash my hunting clothes. Could that have something to do with it?

Write soon. Write often.

Mon Sep 22, 04:07:00 PM 2008
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Blogger Dan of Atsko said...

Dear Shaman,
Thanks for the invitation.
So you're not seeing much glow on your camo. Maybe that's a good thing.
How about your blacklight. Is it a screw in bulb like a std 60 watt incandescent bulb? If so, it makes very little UV light and a lot of short blue light. It will light those psychodelic posters from the 70s , but only a small percentage of the 200 compounds used in cloth, paper, and laundry products.
If you have a dark purple fluorescent tube that is marked 350BLB or an LED from Atsko you may have a lot of good camo reguardless of the pattern.
I check back,
Dan of Atsko

Tue Sep 23, 01:38:00 PM 2008
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Blogger shaman said...

Dan,

I've got the 60 watt incandescent bulb. I've had it for years over the laundry, because I read an article years ago. The detergent the wife uses glows like all get out, but not the hunting clothes. Never has.

None of my camo, old or new glows. What's up with that?

Could it be the way I wash the clothes?

Tue Sep 23, 07:10:00 PM 2008
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Anonymous Dan at Atsko said...

Dear Shaman,
Nothing is conclusive because you are using an incondescent bulb.If nothing glows at all you may have "selected" clothing over the years that you were successful with. I would suggest that the reason why you were successful with these pieces may be that they don't glow. If you have any interest in evaluating your need for U-V-Killer or the effectiveness of it you will need to get a 350BLB flourescent light.
Sincerely, Dan

Tue Oct 28, 12:27:00 PM 2008
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Blogger shaman said...

Dan, it just so happens that I've been hitting Hancock fabrics for 20 years, picking up swatches of this and that when their camo remnants go on sale. Some are name brand camo patterns , some are no-name stuff. I just found it handy to have camo fabric around for making blinds,etc. My collection goes back to Crumley's earliest Tre-Bark in 1986.

I tried everything. Not only the fabric, but all my clothes. I mean EVERYTHING, and could not get a glow. On the other hand, the white bed sheets glow, the laundry detergent glows. Some of my wife's clothes glow.

If you want to send me your 350BLB light, some UV Killer, and whatever else you want, I'll be happy to review it for my weblog, and I will also submit the review for publication in all the venues where I am currently being published.

I'm also perfectly happy to let this whole thing drop. You can color me an unrepentant skeptic-- live and let live. For my part, I just wrote a review of Dave Samuel and Roger Zaiglin's book, White tail Advantage and politely left out any comment on their glowing endorsements of your product line.(pun intended)

On the other hand, you can send me a day-glow UV-radioactive clown suit, and a big day-glo UV painted sign that says "DANGER: HUNTER" and I'll wear the suit and sit in my treestand under the sign all during season as long as you agree to publish all my kill photos in full page ads wherever you are currently advertising. Frankly, I do not think the clown suit or the sign will make much difference to my success as long as I can treat them with a little baking soda to get the stink off.

I'm not the Myth Busters. In fact, I am a practicing shaman; we live for myths and rituals. This all looks like a hunter doing some arcane cleansing ritual to get rid of the unseen evil spirits to me. I dig that. I would not want to see UV Killer go away anymore than I would like to hunt under a sky devoid of Orion.

Write soon. Write often.

Tue Oct 28, 02:35:00 PM 2008
Delete

UV Killers

It is absolutely ludicrous to believe that deer are sensitive to UV. The mammalian eye simply is not built to resolve visible light AND UV light-- not to the extent purported. Deer do not have magic eyes. They see a lot like we do, except they see less red and more blue and green.

This is the classic case of somebody creating a need and then attempting to fill it.

I have a couple of books on deer hunting that devote whole chapters to this anti-UV craze. I'm sure the authors themselves were just reporting what was available at the time. If you go back and look at it, this craze was typical of hunting gadgetry. Somebody comes out with a product that promises no-UV brighteners added to their clothes. Then somebody comes out with a product that will kill UV brighteners already on your clothes. Then . . .

The fact of the matter is that UV-brighteners exist, but they're put on clothes to make them whiter than white and brighter-than-bright-- not something you'd do to the average camo material. At the time UV brighteners became the big bugaboo for hunters, women's fashion was big on white stockings. UV sensitive dies were put on the fabric to keep them from looking dull in office lighting. As a result, when they got out in the sunlight they'd fluoresce to the point of annoyance. I've been in the woods now for 26 seasons. I've never seen anyone's hunting clothes with that kind of day-glo.

That is with one exception. Why is it we go to such lengths to kill UV on all our other clothes and then don fluorescent hunter orange hats and vests? Has anyone ever stopped to think how silly this all gets? I can see an orange hat at a distance of a mile or more when it gets into the sun. I'm sure the deer can too. They just don't pay any attention to it. To them, it's just a BRIGHT gray (?). What is bright gray?

So now I spray UV Killer on it-- somehow this magic potion dulls one dye (the UV brightener) without touching any other color. Hmmmm. Selective bleaching. There's a trick! It kills the UV dye on my camo clothes, but does not touch the florescence of my orange vest. How do it know? How do it know?

Back in the 20's the canned tuna industry was a tight race-- nobody had clear leadership in the field. All tuna was pink. Then Bumble Bee Tuna accidentally came up with a way to bleach tuna and turn it white. They didn't mean to. It just happened that way. Stuck with bleached tuna, somebody in the marketing department came up with an idea. Their ad campaign: "Bumble Bee Tuna-- Guaranteed not to turn pink!" Bumble Bee got on top and stayed there for years. I'll leave you to ponder that one.